image: ilmungo
The following is a feature article by Danny Brown.
One of the key goals when I started blogging was to encourage a healthy discussion area in the comments. I’ve always been a firm believer that the real gold to any blog post can (and does) come from the comments left afterward.
Depending on how encouraging the blogger is to foster open discussion, the comments can take the original post in a whole new direction. From challenging the post itself to debating the thoughts left by other commenters, a blog’s comments can extend the life of a post infinitely (unless the blogger switches comments off after a certain period of time).
Because comments are so integral to the complete blogging experience (unless you’re someone like Seth Godin), there’s been a rise in the number of ways your readers can interact and leave a comment.
While many bloggers prefer to stick with their native comments system, whether it’s WordPress, Blogger or any other of the popular platforms, others are preferring to use third-party systems like Disqus, IntenseDebate and Livefyre, amongst others.
So is there any benefit in using one system over the other, and if so, which one is right for you?
Native Comments
One of the immediate benefits of using your own comment system – as in, the one that comes as standard on the blogging platform you use – is that it fits with the rest of your design.
It doesn’t matter if you use a free blogging theme – like the ones that come pre-installed with your chosen platform – or go the premium theme route, the commenting system will be styled after your blog’s design.
This keeps the look and feel clean as well as uniform, and gives your readers a smooth transition from post to comments.
You can also code the native system a lot easier than you can a third-party system, if the comment code allows you to use your own CSS style.
Of course, there are a ton more benefits to using the vanilla commenting system than just the design angle:
- Less load time. One of the things all third-party comment systems are notorious for (or have been, as they look to continuously improve) is the way they add load time to your blog. Because a vanilla comment system is integrated, it’s part of your blog design’s file base. Third-party systems usually rely on adding a plug-in and this slows down your site.
- You can use CommentLuv. One of the best plug-ins around, CommentLuv allows your commenters to leave a link to their most recent blog post. It’s a nice way to say thanks for commenting, by showing off one of their own posts. While IntenseDebate allows integration of CommentLuv, the styling isn’t ideal, so it’s better on a native comments system.
- Easier buy-in for commenters. One of the biggest advantages of using your native comments system is that commenters don’t need to create an account to leave a comment – all you need is an email address (and sometimes not even that). While you don’t necessarily need to sign up to use a third-party comment system, it is required if you want to get the most benefit from it.
- Control, control, control. Perhaps the biggest plus to running your own comment system is exactly that – it’s your comment system. It’s not hosted on another server; you’re not screwed if their server goes down; and your formatting isn’t messed up because you decide to switch off and go back to your own system.
Add in that vanilla comment systems are for more mobile-friendly than third-party systems, and you can see why so many bloggers prefer staying with their blog’s built-in comment system. So are there any reasons why you wouldn’t want to use the standard set-up?
image: iandavid
Third-Party Comment Systems
Having used pretty much every third-party comment system at some stage – Disqus, IntenseDebate, Livefyre and Echo – I’ve had the opportunity to see firsthand why they’re so popular. (Although, to be honest, I didn’t use Echo much as it’s just too messy and noisy for my liking).
The main advantage that third-party comments have over native comments is the ability to combine your other social networks into the conversation, as opposed to just the readers of the blog post.
So, for example, if Ari had a third-party system installed here, you could then tweet or update your Facebook status directly from the comment itself, and share what you had to say. Taking that one step further, if you were using the Livefyre system, you could use the little “@” symbol and type the name of one of your Twitter or Facebook connections, and bring them into the comment / conversation (they’d be alerted that you mentioned them).
Third-party comment systems also offer real-time updating and alerts (some better than others). This, in essence, turns your blog comment section into the equivalent of a chat room as opposed to a standard comments system.
I used this feature from Livefyre a few weeks ago on my blog, when I had David Siteman Garland as a special guest to promote his new book and talk about business, branding, community and more.
The experiment was a huge success, and saw a great and instant interaction between readers and David. It was a whole new way of using a blog comment system, and perhaps offered the future of what real community integration could look like.
Some other benefits of using a third-party system include:
- Social media reactions. You can see how popular your post is on the likes of Twitter, Facebook and more by having tweets and social network updates as part of the comments (either integrated or as a trackback).
- Single sign-in. If you do create a profile with a third-party system, that follows you around the web (as long as other bloggers are using your chosen system). It means you can track your comments easier, and see where you’re visiting the most.
- Recognition. One of the more useful options on third-party comments is the points system. Here, you can vote up a comment if you like it (and vote down if you don’t). This allows you an instant visual on which of your commenters is adding the most value to the comments (at least in the eyes of other commenters).
There are other benefits too – the ability to highlight who you’re replying to, for example, and the option to reply to a comment direct from your email.
Decisions, Decisions
As you can see, there are benefits to both options – so which one should you use? It really depends on your needs.
I’ve been using Livefyre for the last 2-3 months, and it’s by far my favourite of the third-party options. However, it’s still in private beta and, as such, invitations are limited at the moment. Additionally, because it’s in beta, it’s still experiencing some glitches, so it may not be something you want to try on your live blog.
My new blog design reverted back to vanilla WordPress, until some of the new features in Livefyre are implemented. For example, I love CommentLuv and I miss having that option for my commenters.
I also like the control that running your own comment system provides. Like I mentioned earlier, you’re not tied to a third-party server, so if they have performance issues, at least it won’t impact your blog. A prime example of this is when Twitter’s API struggles (which it often does), and this affects the load time of your blog (due to third-party systems using Twitter’s API for sign-in ability).
Having said that, third-party options do offer far more social network integration without the need for more plug-ins, and they can encourage further discussions because of this.
If I had the option, my ideal mix would be the custom design you can give vanilla comment systems with the interactivity of third-party options. Until then, though, my first choice would always be vanilla WordPress, Livefyre next, and then the other third-party options after that.
How about you – what’s your preference when it comes to commenting, and why that one in particular?
About Danny Brown
Thanks for the comparison. As the blog owner, I totally see the benefits of a third party commenting system but the slow loading time really deters people from wanting to leave comments on my blog. I WANT the comments so I have no choice but to use the “vanilla system” as you call it. As a commenter, I prefer the vanilla system too!
Hi Kylie,
I think that’s definitely one of the bigger stumbling blocks that third-party systems need to overcome, the potential of being a deterrent to comments as opposed to encouraging them.
I’ve had a few people say to me that they’ve been confused by all the sign-in options (Twitter, Google, Facebook, OpenID, etc) – all they want to do is comment. With all these options, they felt they were signing up to be a member of your blog, and that put them off.
Some systems handle sign-in better than others, but still a factor that puts people off.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Hi, Danny. I am contemplating of updating my commenting system after I launch my new site. I have read and heard glowing remarks about CommentLuv, but I believe this won’t work with my site which is in Joomla not WordPress. What system or plug-in could you suggest for me that could work in Joomla and would be as good as CommentLuv?
At the minute, I don’t think there’s a specific comparable system for Joomla (though I could be mistaken). However, are you able to use the IntenseDebate comment system? They allow you to embed it with coding, and CommentLuv supports IntenseDebate – that may be a workaround for now?
I know Andy Bailey (the CommentLuv developer) has hinted at a Joomla option, so hopefully that might be along soon.
Hi there, Jordan from Livefyre here. Livefyre is the only comment system that has a native Joomla plugin. All of the sites in the Bloguin sports blog network currently use it. However, it’s not publicly available at the moment, so if you’d like to try it we can get it to you!
Hey there Jordan,
Great to see you here in the comments (though I’m not surprised) – guess which system is monitoring conversations on blogs?
Completely forgot about the Joomla option on Livefyre, thanks for the heads up.
Oh, and email coming your way with some questions, sir – cheers!
Hi,
I use Joomla quite a bit. In two of the installations I use the Disqus plugin. It works just like it works in WordPress. I used it in Joomla before WP. Visit my sites and you will see the other sites (i’m not posting the links here cause dont want to spam). Feel free to contact me for more info.
Commentluv: have not found any joomla equivalent or plugin yet. So let me know if you do.
Danny, Thanks for the post. Great analysis…I’ve been wondering about Livefyre but noticed that they had a few chinks to sort out…saw this on yours or Gini’s and Marks blogs.
On my WP blog I use the default commenting system with comentluv. And since I have a really tough time with spam and Askimet by itself was not helping I also installed AVH First Defense Against Spam. It checks with Stop Forum Spam and Project Honey Pot and allows me to block some persistent repeat offender IP’s.
Cheers!
Hey there Jacob,
Cheers, sir, and glad you enjoyed the post. Livefyre would definitely be my first choice for third-party systems, so I’m hoping to see some of the kinks (and new features) addresses in future releases – I’ll be keeping an eye on them for sure.
Sounds like you’ve got quite the spam filter there – how are you finding it for separating spam comments from proper comments that may look like spam (lots of links, for example, or just a short comment)?
Hi again Danny,
. I get more spam comments than real ones (have been trying to get consistency into my blogging only since 2 months or so). Although, my site has been around since 2000 it was dedicated to my animation projects.
Re: Separating spam from proper comments- would be a good problem to have
How the AVH First Defense Against Spam does help is that it checks with the Stop Forum Spam or Project Honey Pot or by a local blacklist, BEFORE any content is served (saves bandwidth and cpu cycles). Most spammers are repeat offenders and are already listed (IP/email) in the SFS or honeypot databases.
The AVH spam defense prevents the blacklisted i.p’s from even posting by terminating the connection. Before that Askimet used to catch them but I still had to clean up/verify manually.
I still do get spam that Askimet grabs but my cleanup effort is at least 85% less.
Cool, thanks for replying, Jacob – might be time for me to check that set-up out.
What’s the benefit of that plugin and the external blacklists vs WordPress’ own blacklist entries in the discussion dashboard? That’s what I currently do; every time I come across a repeat IP address, email address, or keyword, I add it in.
You are doing it manually…after the comment has been posted. That’s the main diff.
Most of the pure SEO spammers have time based activity spikes so the chances are that the activity has been caught/flagged by other sites and listed in the databases (honeypot etc) before they hit your site. For example I installed an api key so I can report any spammer that gets through, back to the database(stop forum)….with a click. So in effect all of us work together.
On my blog, Its blocking 300(average) pure spam comments a month. On blogs like yours and Danny’s I suspect it may help even more. BTW: there is a limit of 5000 API calls for the stop spam forum , so it caches clean and unclean IP’s so that it does not have to recheck.
Once I installed the plugin(in december), i’ve only had to add 5 IP’s manually the rest(41) were caught by the plugin. That much time saved over having just Askimet.
Hmm, good point. Just set it up with both third party api keys. Have you written anything (or could you?) about the best settings for this?
that’s an idea. Will club it with another related topic
I’ve seen IP’s bypass the IP or email blacklist, Ari – this might be a good alternative.
Nice post.As a beginner i got to know about commenting system.Thanks for the share.
Thanks, Pavithra, glad you enjoyed and hope it helps with your own commenting decisions as your blog grows.
Great info on the commenting system. Thanks to both Ari & Danny. I have been grappling with the issue of moving to Disqus for my newer blogs, as it would certainly make fighting spam easier. But I am yet to decide on whether to accept the losing of commentator simplicity. I for one hate it when I have to Login to comment, and think it will be an iffy situation to introduce disqus on my blogs. I hope i will be able to make a decision now after u have explained the pros and cons so nicely.
Hi Bram,
Thanks, and glad you found it useful. Ari recently wrote about a pretty cool anti-spam plug-in called G.A.S.P:
http://ariherzog.com/why-akismet-blocks-real-blog-comments/
It’s the one that asks you to tick the little box (as used on Ari’s blog) to prove you’re not an automated bot (which is where most of the WordPress spam seems to come from).
It’s not perfect – since a dedicated spammer can still get through – but I’ve found it hugely effective since installing it.
Good luck with your decision!
It’s amazing how much spam comes through, despite GASP. I’m looking into complementary solutions.
In your trackbacks as well, Ari. I didn’t click them but all three look like spam. My blog is couple weeks old and half of my few comments I got are spam. Incredible these guys! I always associate them with telemarketing.
Joy
With GASP activated all my spam is now from trackbacks – none from actual comments.
I don’t think Ari is as lucky as you are, Keith. He still gets both. Chances because of his PR. BTW, take a look at my latest blog post. A choclat for choclat..
May also because I have outgoing links as DoFollow…
Wow Joy – it’s a small world or should I say great minds think nalike. LOL
Love your little video and the summary of the film.
I’m curious which comments — specifically — you consider spam. I go through the comments (both approved and pending) sporadically every day and mark many as spam, but also mark many spams as real ones.
For start, those three trackbacks at the bottom are SPAM in my book. Then come those one page cookie-cutter made for search engines, which is the main type I get so far.
I understand trackbacks (which have since been marked spam) but which comments.
I don’t believe I mentioned anything about comments here. They are all fine as usual. Only the trackbacks I wanted to bring them to your attention. Thanks for keeping the place neat and tidy as well as informative. I know it takes effort and energy.
Hi Danny, Ari,
I just wanted to weigh in on what G.A.S.P. does and doesn’t do. It DOES block all spambots which account for the majority of the spam most bloggers receive but some spam that LOOKS like automated comments gets through right now because they’re actually trackbacks/pingbacks.
Dragonblogger wrote a post about the plugin we use with GASP called Simple Trackback Validation that can be configured to block (as he explains in his post) that type of trackback spam.
Neither of these plugins blocks any spam manually left by a human capable of checking the box.
Hi Gail, I’m aware why GASP was created. While the initial few days saw less spam coming through, it became more and more over time. Not trackbacks, for I had installed that trackback validation plugin shortly thereafter. You have no idea how much manual spam I am marking as spam these days.
Hi Ari,
Maybe they just love you. I was starting to get a ton of those trackbacks that STBV was flagging so I changed the setting to delete those instead. That really helped. I do still get some manually left spam and GASP isn’t designed to do anything about those.
The problem we will always have is that spam is in the eye of the beholder. What is spam to one blogger is a valued comment to another. Some bloggers think a comment that links to any business is spam and others that a comment from anyone they do not already know is spam.
That is why Akismet can never be accurate, but if bloggers use GASP and Akismet together at least they can actually see the comments Akismet flags instead of deleting them because they don’t want to slog through 100s or 1000s of spam to find them.
Rubab wrote a guest post on GrowMap about moderating comments (I put it in CommentLuv in this comment). That post already has tons of comments because this is a topic so hotly debated by bloggers.
At least that dedicated spammer has to tick the box and write a comment.
I use GASP but still get a little spam.
With Akismet I spent ages going through the spam looking for real comments.
Give me GASP every time.
Hi Danny!
As you know – I was asking you about your comments system recommendations just the other day as we are about to do a major redesign of th Sprout Social Insights Blog (click my link next to my avatar to visit) which currently uses Disqus.
What I don’t like about Discus is the complexity it adds to people wanting to leave a comment. Most people don’t have a proper Disqus account of their own so they end up being listed as ‘Anonymous’ when they comment using Disqus.
It just seems way too cumbersome and I just don’t see any value in having a comment ‘system’ at all. On my personal blog – http://donpower.me I use the WordPress/Thesis comment system and I’ve generated over 1400 commenst because it’s just EASY for people to do so. I use CommentLuv over there too by the way – which definitely encourages comments – especially from te blogging community.
The one outstanding thing for me is I wonder if you or the readers here can recommend the plugins to achieve the following (assuming I’m using a vanilla, default commenting system to start):
1. I need a plugin where the user can leave a coment by ‘logging in’ with their Twitter credentials. Ideally this would come with an on/offf switch for the commerntor to decide whether or not they want the comment to be posted on their Twitter account.
2. I need a plugin where they can simply put in their Twitter handle so that it becomes linkable for readers to click through to that commentor’s profile on Twitter
3. I need the same functionality as #1 # 2 above for Facebook.
4. Oh – and subscribe to comments via Email plugin – I like that one you have below because it gibes you the option of receiveing ALL comments or just replies to your own comment. That’s slick – what is it?
5. What is the ‘Yes, I’m a a real person’ thing all about, below?
Thanks in advance!
- Don
Hi there Don,
Good to see you here, mate, and glad the post was useful (especially after our earlier conversation). I agree – the easier to comment, the easier the buy-in.
For your questions, here you go:
1. Simple Twitter Connect seems the best (and easiest) of the options available:
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/simple-twitter-connect/
2. The same plug-in will give you this option (it’s called Twitter Anywhere, and is supported by the Simple Twitter Connect plug-in).
3. Try Simple Facebook Connect:
http://wordpress.org/extend/plugins/simple-facebook-connect/
4. Ari wrote about this plug-in; not sure which one it is, but maybe Ari can jump in on that?
5. That’s the G.A.S.P. plug-in as referenced above in my response to Bram.
Hope that helps!
I experimented with the Simple Facebook Connect plugin about a year ago, but ultimately got rid of it due to an increased load time. If you have a WordPress blog that also uses Thesis, you can learn how to set it up via this guide.
Hi Don,
Here is the link to the Subscribe to Comments plugin I use. I do not know if there are others but Ari can tell you if that is the same one that he uses or not.
For the longest time I only employed that plugin — until I added ReplyMe and helped expand our conversations.
Hi Ari,
Thank you; I read that post. Now that you have used that plugin for a couple of weeks how do you like it? No conflicts with Thesis or any other plugins?
No conflicts at all. Allows me to reply quickly, too, if I’m at my computer.
Thanks Danny for the post. I tried number of vanilla comment systems such as Typepad, blogger, WP .org and .com among others. With exception of WP .org they all left nothing to be desired. They are far behind. Don’t you think? One of the main reasons I switched to WP was its versatile comment system when you add few plugins to the mix. You can also replace it with virtually any 3rd party system, which is something I did.
After trying both Disqus and Intense debate (ID), it was easy to choose http://intensedebate.com/wordpress – It is not perfect. As you said; load-time still my main and maybe only issue with them but it is not so intolerable. Why I chose it, someone asks?
1. It is made by Autmoattic. They are the real brain behind WordPress itself and they know enough about integration covering things that Disqus doesn’t offer.
2. It allows full comment and account data sync between ID and WP. This ensures that chances are *great* I’ll have all comments on my site if I decided to drop them.
3. I can moderate comments with my WP admin panel or from ID.
4. Comment threading, reply-by-email, user accounts and reputations, comment voting and flagging, along with Twitter and facebook integrations are some of the advantages of using this system. It fosters shared responsibilities and interactions than the vanilla ones.
5. It allows other important plugins and functions to be included such as Akismet, commentLuv, check spelling, editing, sharing, and more. This saves me from having to deal with many plugins to add or update.
6. It is mobile-friendly. It reverts to WP comments for visitors on mobile devices.
7. You don’t need to create an account to leave a comment or enjoy most of the extra benefits. An option similar to vanilla system is readily available to sign-in. See it on my site – http://www.willtoknow.com/favorite-wordpress-plugins/ .
8. They had some issues in the past but lately they covered up those very well.
On the topic.. one thing I have with Ari is that he sounded the alarm number of times that 3rd party systems are there to “get us” for their own devilish motives. Well, it is a good place here to ask him on that. I happen to disagree. Any thoughts, Ari?
Hi Joy,
Oh, for sure – while the vanilla systems are great for following your design, some are much better than others, and it’s one reason we always recommend new bloggers to go self-hosted WordPress (WordPress.com is good, but still no match for its big brother).
IntenseDebate makes a lot of sense because of its affiliation with Automattic (although, to be fair, Livefyre also pulls directly from WordPress so your formatting, threaded comments, etc, will always be there should you switch the plug-in off).
I’m just not too keen on ID from an aesthetic angle – I think it can sometimes look a little too much, depending on how much the blogger has added to the settings. This is where third-party systems still need to improve, in the flexibility they give you for styling to suit your design.
And you’d have to ask Ari about his conspiracy theory thoughts – maybe he can allow you to be featured with your take?
I wasn’t giving an opportunity to beta test livefyre yet but many including you seem to like it. As you said, 3rd party systems are always striving to improve user experience. One day they will make it happen for the majority of us.
Danny, beside the aesthetic angle of ID, are you aware of any *current* issues with it and would like to share? Thanks!
Hi Joy,
Hopefully the Livefyre beta will transition to open access soon – I know most of the people that have used it so far have been pretty positive in feedback.
ID seems to be a pretty solid system (again, probably a lot to do with the fact it’s part of the WordPress family). The only “issues” I’ve seen is not tracking comment counts properly, or losing comments when users transfer from one platform to another.
Load and speed seem pretty good though, especially compared to Disqus (and again, this is just from my own use – Disqus seems to work great for a lot of people).
The day we get a system that’s as easy to comment with (and design) as the native system, but that can truly mix all the social comments as well as part of the conversation, will be the day that blog comments finally reach their potential. Here’s hoping!
Thanks for the feedback, Danny. I’ll keep an eye on that and weigh my options if I get alarmed. Looking forward to test Livefyre as well – at least on your blog.
I forgot to mention for the aesthetic angle that ID also allows you to customize the look using css http://support.intensedebate.com/css-documentation/ – I don’t see need for it on my blog though. It blends well (I guess). Thanks for the very informative post and discussion. I enjoyed it and learned couple things from it. Cheer!
Hi Joy, we just sent an invite your way so you can try Livefyre on your site now
We import from the WordPress database and all new comments will be written back as well, so you’ll still have all the data. Let me know if you have any other questions about the system. Looking forward to getting your feedback!
Very neat, Jenna. Showing me you care about what others say and follow up is a very good start. I’ll be doing so in one week (as a test) after I give Intense Debate a chance to finish testing an issue on my pages. Thanks and looking forward.
Two responses, Joy.
First, I don’t know what you refer by conspiracies but I’m not a fan of third-party commenting systems. I’d rather be in control of commenting, than giving up that control to another.
Second, Automattic created WordPress.com — but not self-hosted WordPress.org blogs.
Well, it is Danny who labeled it as “conspiracy theory”
I know you don’t hide your “disdain” for these systems mainly for control reasons as you said. But also a search on the subject quickly returned the following statement (just as one example):
“… I don’t blame the bloggers who use WordPress.com or Disqus, for they are innocent pawns in something greater than they likely signed up for” -Ari
Oops!
I think that gives Danny’s “innocent” description to my question a merit. Don’t you think?
For Automattic, it is just definition. I know that people behind WP .com are most but not all are the same behind WP. org including founder Matt Mullenweg. http://automattic.com/about/ Am I wrong? Please feel free to correct me. Talk to you later, Ari. Have a good weekend.
This human thinks the previous comment looks like spam.
Only one of the blogs I follow uses Disqus and it is tiresome to login, click click click, each time I want to leave a comment there. Blogspot doesn’t seem to work with Commentluv, so I have a plugin from Blogger instead. Not nearly as nice as CommentLuv, no link to latest post, but it still says – Thanks, I appreciate your comment. What I am waiting for impatiently is Blogger’s promise to enable threaded comments.
Because I like to read and respond to comments as they come in, I use comment moderation, and kill spam as I go.
I hope you were talking about a deleted spam comment before yours. I don’t see how mine is but I would like to know if this is the case.
Going to read the new comments here, including yours! The spam I saw then was online gaming. DEFINITELY not you!
Thanks for the follow up, Diana. I figured that out on my own but just wanted to take a shot at it. I learn a lot from people’s misunderstanding of things, you know.
I checked your site and left comments there. As I said, blogspot commenting is lame. 1st. a pop-menu. 2nd. confusing sign up options. 3rd. bad layout. 4th. No reply-by-email. Now, I have to go back manually to check for a follow up! To avid that, if we didn’t have this conversation, I would skip posting a comment on your blog even though I wanted to. I noticed a majority of the comments comes from other blogspot users. Am I right about that? And what plugin are you using to substitute for Commentluv. I didn’t see any there.
I agree with Danny. Time for wordpress. You have good stuff to share and your photos can greatly be enhanced with WP plugins. It took me time and energy to scale the learning ladder with wordpress.org but it was very worth it. Best!
That’s possible. Despite the GASP plugin installed here, clever spammers try to fool the system — and I manually mark them as spam after the fact, such as what you likely saw.
Unrelated, you know that Disqus supports Blogspot, right? I wrote an article on the 5 steps to implement it a few weeks ago.
Ari, how good is GASP at reducing SPAM, as I am seriously considering using it as well as Akemat, despite my dislike of having to tick a button which I always forget to do!
Would that work do you know?
I realise its not a perfect system, but is it better?
Christopher
GASP will work with Akismet but I only use GASP and have no problem with spam.
As for forgetting to tick the box, no problem.
You simply get a warning and you don’t lose the comment you have typed.
Give it a try – you can always delete it.
Doing it now Keith, thanks very much for the advice!
Check out my philosophy blog soon to see it in action
Look forward to checking out your blog Chris.
Once you install GASP you will have a problem!
What will you do with all the time you used to spend looking through the spam? LOL
In a word, GASP rocks because automatic spam comments (those without manual people filling out form fields) are blocked and marked as spam.
But heavily-trafficked blogs like mine do see a lot of manual spam, which is why I’m investigating complementary anti-spam tools. More on that later.
The key to keep in mind, Christopher, is GASP was created to solve Akismet’s known problem of marking real people as spammers. I don’t run Akismet on here.
Ari, Gasp is now being used on my philosophy blog all thanks to you! Please check out my article
I’m surprised at the non-CommentLuv option on Blogger, since they support IntenseDebate, which you can use with Blogger:
http://comluv.com/download/commentluv-blogger/
And (though I can’t be sure) I think you can possible use code to display it as well (though you’d have to double check with the CommentLuv developer on that).
Threaded comments is definitely a huge part of extending a blog’s comments as well as the community – maybe time to make the switch to WordPress?
Blogger also supports Disqus, which few employ.
Put it this way, I spent a few days, jumping thru hoops, trying to set it up, then said no thanks, not worth the effort. It SAYS you can use CommentLuv on blogspot, but I haven’t seen anyone who does use it. I am ‘in’ CommentLuv, as you can see, but I cannot install it on my blog.
Seen any blogspots with CommentLuv??
Try these ones:
http://msileanesblog.blogspot.com/2010/07/commentluv-gives-your-blog-heart.html
http://www.larissaphotography.com/blog/2011/01/commentluv-photography-blog/
Also, if you haven’t already, check in with the CommentLuv developer, there’s a pretty solid support network over there.
Hi Danny, thanks for the knowledge, it was an eye-opener. A blogger myself, I would love my readers to comment easily and without much hindrance. So just for now, the third party comment systems are a definite no no!
Hi Jeremy,
I hear you. The great thing is, systems like Livefyre, Disqus, etc, are constantly looking at how to improve the user experience, so it’s definitely something to keep an eye on as they move forward.
Hi Danny,
I, too, have been grappling with the various commenting options, not really being happy with any of them. I tried Livefyre and, while I did like the ability to have more of a real-time interaction with commenters, the beta-ness messed with the back-end of my blog.
I also got feedback from readers that they did not like only having the options to comment using a Facebook, Twitter or Livefyre sign-in. This prevented them from being able to comment using the URL of their own blog or LinkedIn profile or whatever link they wanted.
My search continues. In the meantime, I’m also back to the vanilla commenting system.
Hey there Irene,
Great to see you here, miss, long time no chat.
I agree – if you’re going to use a third-party system, the user experience (from the reader side of things) needs to be as simple as possible. That was one of the bits of feedback I got re. Livefyre, the limited sign-in options at the minute. I know they were looking at offering more (Google and LinkedIn were mentioned), so we’ll see.
I have two blogs, one gets a small amount of traffic, the other gets a large amount. However, both are subject to 99% comment spam. Akismet helps, but still plenty get through. Even the non-spam comments are from people who are trying to gain links. They write a single line comment which is slightly relevant, but doesn’t add value. Unless value is added, I won’t approve the comments. The way I see it is that if they have a similar site, they know a bit about the industry, so should write something interesting. If they don’t leave a link, then they are regular visitors and I would approve much less strictly. What I would like to know is how you actually encourage less spam and more value comments?
Hi Martin,
Do you have a comment policy? That can help educate your readers on what type of comments are good to go, while others will be regulated.
Unfortunately, you can’t really discourage “spam” – dedicated spammers will always find a way past any filters. But perhaps you’re putting spam and less valuable comments in the same box? By the sounds of it, the comments you’re getting are (mostly) valid, if not up to your preference for longer comments?
You could try just answering comments that offer value – that way, it encourages other readers to put a bit more effort in?
Wow Ari… no playing around this Feature Friday… It’s nice to hear what the big-time guys think about comment systems… I really like Ari’s setup here with the keyword love added. I have been using Disqus on a couple of my blogs and it seems to be pretty straight-forward. Another huge help is Akismet, it is such a time saver. Thanks for the insight Danny!
Hey there Chris,
Well thanks for the kind words, mate, appreciated, and glad you enjoyed the post.
The KeywordLuv option is definitely an interesting one, and I may have to visit that at some time to investigate more. Definitely another cool way to thank your readers for commenting.
Hi Danny
When I visit a site it has to be easy to comment or I just leave the site.
Can’t understand why some sites make it so difficult to leave a simple comment.
My recipe for encouraging comments…
Use the GASP antispam plugin instead of a CAPTCHA.
Use CommentLuv as a little reward for commenting.
Use the subscribe to comments plugin to get the conversation moving.
And… if you want repeat comments… visit the commenters site and leave a comment.
Thanks for getting the discussion going.
Great point about visiting your commenter’s site as well, Keith. I have to admit, I was a little naughty for a while and didn’t take the time to do that, but it’s definitely something I’ve been more aware of lately.
Cheers!
Danny
It’s a mixed blessing when you get lots of comments, as you are getting with this post, because you have to visit and comment on lots of sites.
One of the things that really surprised me about blogging was the community spirit.
Trouble is, most of the comments come from other bloggers not from potential clients.
I love the comment system that comes default with the platform, in this case, WordPress. Disqus or any other comment system gives or extends login features, definitely. But this increases the loading time and people with low bandwidth suffer quite much. I want everyone to have good experience with my blog and that’s why I go with regular comment system, like this one on Ari Herzog.
It’s definitely something that hinders more uptake of third-party systems, Sajib. Disqus seems particularly prone to loading issues – I’ve arrived at posts where the comments won’t even load, and I’ve just left the site instead.
Like you say, make it easy, make it fast, and everything else will follow.
Loading Comments is a heck. Plenty of times I gave up waiting to read comments from TechCrunch and Mashable articles. TechCrunch used to have default comment system. I don’t understand why on earth they changed.
Danny – Love this post, and it raises some interesting points. It ultimately goes back to what your goals for your blog are and how that relates to comments. For someone that wants to increase reader “action” on some of the other social networks, I would lean more towards a LiveFyre. For others that are interested in building community or highlighting those in their community, CommentLuv is a really excellent option.
One thing I actually don’t like about LiveFyre is the voting and that the “points” are so visible. On a very popular blog post that I commented on (and then subscribed to comments), almost half the future comments were of people going back and forth about having more points and/or voting up someone else’s comment. Anytime you make that a significant feature, you’re going to run in to trouble.
I agree with you Sue about the points thing but if you build a community that share your values and aspiration, this won’t be an issue to trouble you.
I also love the idea of giving readers more power to move comments up, down, and even flag what they feel inappropriate to their taste. This way the community invested with the author blogger subtly and with less immediate confrontation will set the tone and spirit of the comment section. As long as the blogger is active, no fear of your site turning to be a YouTube comments’ ground. Don’t you think?
Agree with the “community leading the comment quality”, Joy – I know that’s the goal behind Livefyre (the desire to eliminate trolls and really highlight great community members). Perhaps the points system isn’t the answer, but it’s a good starting point.
That’s a very valid point, Sue (and probably one of the reasons Livefyre removed the voting down option. Like you say, the minute you start talking more about the points leaderboard as opposed to the post (even in jest), then you’ve maybe lost the post topic itself.
It’s been really interesting seeing everyone’s take on comment systems, and why they use them. I like your breakdown of the goals of the blogger, and which system would be best for them depending on that. Livefyre does seem to have a great advantage from the social angle, due to the way they make it easy to integrate your online friends into the mix.
Be interesting to see if they can build on the potential and really offer the best of both worlds down the line. Minus the points competition, obviously…
Thanks for the feedback about Livefyre, Sue. I actually think Livefyre helps to build community as we have seen many of our bloggers discovering other blogs in our network and commenting on them. We’re looking into ways to incorporate CommentLuv functionality as well which will hopefully give us the best of both worlds.
This is actually the first time I’ve heard anyone not like the points system, but I understand how it can be a hinderance. The points are a bit rudimentary right now and we’re looking at ways to tweak it to make it more meaningful to the conversation as to distracting from it. Thanks for showing me a new perspective, it’s definite food for thought and we’ll keep that in mind as we modify the system.
Hi Danny, nice job. You know how I feel. I love LiveFyre and see it as revolutionary. Sometimes you have to find the one that has the most features you like and suffer with missing a few things you’d like to have.
My blog used to be a pain to comment on, with just the generic WordPress comment system…and spam was very high. Since putting LiveFyre on my site (and a little cross blogging), I have seen a marked improvement on the action in my blog comments. It would be hard to image not using LiveFyre or at least Discus.
Hey there Drew,
Oh, I’m with you on Livefyre – it’s definitely the best third-party option available (at least for me). I just really like the CommentLuv approach, though to be fair, Jordan (the Livefyre CEO) has previously hinted at either integrating Livefyre, or offering their own solution.
I would love to have Livefyre on my blog again (if it has certain features), so I’ll be looking at how they progress as they move from beta to public, and what features are in the final release.
How to deal with spammers has been the problem from day 1 of blogging I guess and no one has come up with a perfect solution for it. Using automated anti-spam plugins like Akismet may certainly save a lot of time but at the same moment make it easy for a good comment to get lost. Any commentator finding a white blank page after they write out their comment may not feel it to be the worth their while to comment on your blog in the future. So i for now have started Using GASP (as Ari and Danny seem to be using), that atleast takes care of the bots leaving me to deal with the human spammers.
Moderation definitely hinders the flow of the comment section, Shaun. I use an Open Comment policy on my blog to (try and) make sure the flow isn’t interrupted. Yes, some spam comments get through, but rather that than putting people off, especially when it only takes a minute to clean up.
Cheers!
Wow Danny, this was GREAT! I’ve really learned a lot more about the different comment systems out there and think it may be time to give GASP a try. One thing I’d add to the discussion, and it may have been mentioned (I did read most of the above) is the ReplyMe plugin. Essentially, that’s a plugin that makes sure a commentator gets an email notification of the reply to his/her comment. I have found this little plugin to be a lifesaver on my blog, because it means that even though many people will not ‘subscribe to comments’, they’ll still get my reply to theirs, which shows them I care. It also promotes great conversation, like the one that has occurred here with this tremendous post.
Again, well done guys. Thanks for such an info packed article.
Hey there Marcus,
Thanks for the kind words, mate, and glad you enjoyed the post. I think Ari uses the ReplyMe plug-in here – definitely something I’m going to look into since, as you say, not everyone thinks to check the Subscribe to Comments option. Will see how it goes.
Cheers, sir!
Yep, I use ReplyMe, as I elaborated when I introduced the social commenting plugin.
One of its faults is only the person being replied gets the notification; so for a thread like this where you replied to Marcus, he doesn’t get it. I think he should. Maybe the plugin can be duplicated as a custom function and expanded.
I’ve been noticing a lot of blogger blogs using Disqus system and I kinda prefer it to the default blogger comment form. The addition of the regular name, email and url fields to the Disqus system helps a lot as that logging in thingy was annoying.
Funny that you came to the conclusion of native commenting first and then 3rd party second. From doing the same analysis, I have stuck with native WordPress commenting with CommentLuv turned on after considering Disqus.
For as long as the blogger is active, no fear of your site turning to be a YouTube comments’ ground.
This has been an interesting discussion. As far as 3rd party commenting systems go, Livefyre looks very promising. How does it perform for comments that have a lot of code though?
I don’t particularly like 3rd party services. Not only are you handing over data to largely faceless entities with no control over what happens to it, are subject to whatever happens with their loading times, but are also exposed to whatever privacy and security implications may come about through the use of such services. I won’t leave comments on sites that use these services.
If something like Livefyre was available as an open source project to be integrated into WordPress and other systems it would be great. Having yet another site to login on and manage is just time-wasting.
That said, although I use WordPress for a lot of my projects I don’t use the native comment system. I don’t like leaving comments on WordPress blogs, especially if they are using gravatars and Akismet. Those blogs disclose my comment data to Automattic which can potentially be used for tracking commenters activities. Very few blogs bother to tell readers what information is collected and disclosed to 3rd party services (and they should, in my opinion). There’s some nice work being done with WordPress plugins but, so far, nobody has come up with a good alternative commenting system that protects user’s privacy.
I’m glad that you site out some good ideas about commenting platform..making the blogsphere clean and healthy will make the blog community alive. i also encourage every bloggers to leave a relevant comments.
i just use standard wordpress comment, and akismet to prevent spammer
I have used intense debate on a number of my blogs and im thinking of changing to Disqus after reading this. Really detailed and well thought out post. Thanks.
Thanks Danny! I really like the features of 3rd party systems and am favoring Livefyre or Disqus. I am thinking about switching over… But fear that my readers are not big blog readers and may be turned off by having to sign up with the 3rd party site. Thanks for highlighting the cons of 3rd parties: slower load times, etc.
Cheers,
Rajka
I’m using livefyre and disqus for my web and blog
One thing I don’t like about Livefyre though, at least from what I can tell, it does not allow guest posting. It looks like one way or another the user is forced to signup or login. Am I missing something, or is it true that Livefyre doesn’t allow guest posting?
Just noticed something else, I’m using Firefox and it looks like Livefyre does not allow the right click context menu inside this textarea, therefore I can’t use the built in FireFox spell check
It seems that Disqus does both of the things mentioned above. I think that puts it ahead, although from what I can tell, Disqus loads a little slower.
I’ll have to check if any WordPress plugins integrate social sharing and mentions into the vanilla comment system. That might be good enough to entice more commenters.
This is a very valuable comparison. Thank you for your hard work. I’m interested in the politics that take place in comments, and how comment systems can mediate the inevitable noise that tends to degrade conversations. On my blog, I just wrote about Brazil’s major online newspapers seem to be attracting hired partisan flunkies, who rant against oppositional views with repeated comments. How to avoid these sorts of interlopers?
Without Any doubt I would like to share my view that Commentluv pro is the best commenting system for WordPress. Thanks.
It’s wise to choose a good commenting system for the active blogs as it always makes the good conversation between people, which is an important part of the blogs. The post is excellent.